Psychedelic Journeys: A Path to Self-Discovery and Healing

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Created: 4/26/2024 9:02:36 PM
Duration: 3198.613
Channels: 1

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This is Lynns. This is Russ. And we're married. Are we? Yep. Since 2013. We're the host of the Unfiltered Union podcast.

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Where we discuss popular headlines and interview interesting people. Our opinions may vary, but we will never censor our guests or our viewpoints. Welcome to Unfiltered Union.

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We have Elias Moskona with us, and he grew up in a conflictive household in Venezuela, and life always felt safer in his own head. When he left home to study abroad, he didn't realize he was bringing along invisible wounds of trauma and all the coping mechanisms he learned as a kid.

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It took a miserable college experience, moving countries again and a marriage and a divorce,

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a wonderful therapist in the discovery psychedelics as tools for mental health for him to start piecing together the puzzle that held the answers to who he was.

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So today, he can say that,

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the effort to finding himself as the single most meaningful decision of his life, and he has reaped the benefits of it on a daily basis.

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He now dedicates his life to offering others guidance as they navigate their own process of self discovery and self connection, focusing on the safe and responsible use of psychedelics as powerful tools for the exploration of the psychological,

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emotional, and spiritual landscape that hold the secrets to who we are.

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If you didn't get that from the introduction, this is going to be a mixture of both mental health and talking about tools for

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how to overcome

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some of those mental health

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angst, if you will. I mean, the idea of using psychedelics is something that,

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Russ, we have talked about previously

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during your OCD

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experience. Yes.

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And I I think this is going to be a very interesting conversation. For sure.

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And before we do jump in,

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you have a business

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that is dedicated to coaching through psychedelics. How do you actually pronounce that name?

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Yeah. The name is pronounced Curasane.

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So it's curasa

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n e. And the name, it's the combination of 2 Spanish words that mean to heal kind of in different ways. And so I have a website. It's corasana.com,

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and that's where I provide my services and coaching and guidance around psychedelic experiences.

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Alright.

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Wow.

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I mean,

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let's start from the beginning.

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Let's try and start from the beginning. How was your home life growing up?

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Yeah. So, you know,

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my parents were an incredibly conflicting

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couple. They were just not meant for each other is the reality.

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And so I think during that time, you know, growing up, there was a lot of, anxiety and a lot of trying to kind of escape that experience

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of them fighting and just discussing. And,

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you know, there was

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it it it was not

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as,

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you know, it's not horrible,

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but, as some other experiences of childhood are. And I I find myself lucky that I always had everything that I needed in, you know, in order to kind of become the person who I am today.

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Very privileged in certain ways, but it was certainly, I would say, a traumatic experience in in a lot of ways to kinda grow up with that constant conflict. And

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so I,

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I I ended up

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developing certain mechanisms of just kinda disconnecting a little bit from everyday life and living in my head and not fully showing up in relationships

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in ways in which later I realized you know, I didn't realize that when I was growing up. But later on in life, it became obvious that I had developed certain patterns that were just not gonna serve me in the long term.

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Yeah. It's crazy how much childhood trauma can really impact us through our entire lives. Right? Things that

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maybe some people would say,

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oh, that's not really traumatic. It's like, yeah. But to me,

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it was.

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Yep. That's the thing too, is people tend to discount other people's trauma.

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Mhmm. And that's

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not good.

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Right. You know, just because you went through a situation and it didn't mess you up, like it messed me up. That doesn't discount the way I'm feeling. For sure. And I mean, you develop ways to deal with it. I mean, what ways would you say that you feel you built coping mechanisms around all that to deal with it? How how do you feel you cope?

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Yeah. Well, I'll speak a little about that, but just on the that point that you said about how people can interpret your own trauma. I'm not sure if you're familiar with doctor Gabor Mate. He's got a few books around trauma and, also a couple things like ADHD

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and addiction.

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And the way that he speaks about it is, and I really like this, is trauma is not what happens to you, but it's what happens inside of you as a result of what happened to you. And he makes a really good point about,

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sensibility.

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It's people have different levels of sensibility. There's people who are more sensible than others.

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And so if you think about,

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trauma, you know, a way of imagining this is if I just kinda touch you right now on your shoulder and just kinda push a little bit, you're gonna feel it, but it's not really gonna hurt. But if tomorrow you go to the beach and you get sunburned and it's really bad and then I exert the same amount of pressure,

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you're gonna have a very different reaction. You're gonna be so much more sensible to that. And so different people react to different experiences in that way,

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which is what makes, you know, each individual case so interesting and so,

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you know, so real for the person who experienced that.

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Definitely, in in my

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my experience

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was that I realized

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at around 30 years old that I had no idea

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what I liked, who I was,

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why I was doing the things that I was doing. Like, it it it's like waking up and it and when people call it waking up, that's truly what it feels like. It's like I open my eyes. I'm like, you know, when you're driving and for, like, 15 minutes, like, your mind is somewhere else, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh god. Was I driving? Was I lost while I was while I should have been paying attention? Yeah. That's kinda what it felt like. And I was, you know, 30, 31 years old already into this experience

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in a marriage that was not serving either of us in a you know, with a career that I had not really chosen, just kinda had fallen into it with a group of friends that I didn't connect with, living in a place, like, even geographically

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that I didn't really like or enjoy. And so, like, all of these

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big pieces of my life, I was like, how did I put this together? Like, who did it for me? And, eventually, I had to accept that it had been me because

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that experience of disconnecting from reality, of not truly being present

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because of the things that I grew up with, that coping mechanism of just kinda going inwards and numbing out

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had

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just kinda kept going for years years unchecked.

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So that so that so that was the experience of that that finally kinda made it to I was like, oh,

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something's happening here. I need to fix it. And it took,

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it it took a lot of difficulty and and kind of realizing that some things were truly not working for me. Some addictions,

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like, true troubles in the marriage,

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for me to be like, okay. This is this needs to be addressed.

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I won't lie and say that it was quick. I always say. Oh, yeah. But but, yeah, I find it interesting. Everybody that we talk to that has a mental

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health struggle,

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it all seems to

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always compound to a point to where it's a breaking point.

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Every single situation that I've seen mine,

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including mine, it was

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a snap. And then it's like, oh,

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we got to go and do something about this because if we don't, we're going to be we're going to end up in a bad spot.

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Mhmm.

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Yeah.

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I I like the the phrase, if,

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people don't change when they see the light, they change when they feel the heat.

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You sometimes have to kinda hit

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that rock bottom, and that also looks different for everyone just like trauma looks different for everyone. But the thing that makes you say,

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this is this cannot be the life that I'm living.

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Right.

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Oh, I like that a lot. Yeah.

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Well, we mentioned that you started therapy, on your mental health journey. What what do you feel led you to that moment? Led you to seek therapy?

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Yeah. Well, let me open up a little bit about that, and that's, you know, just kind of peel some of the layers. But,

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I was struggling with addiction, and, it wasn't substance addiction. It was actually a behavioral addiction. It started with pornography, and then it evolved into full blown sexual addiction. I think that's something that a lot of people, definitely a lot of men struggle. You know, I don't know

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one man who can be honest in my life, personally, who says that they haven't struggled or currently struggle a lot with pornography.

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And that was a path that for me started very early on, like it does for a lot people, and that started leading to,

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just kind of that bleeding into my day to day life. So compound that with

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being in a marriage where I wasn't happy and then starting exploring. It's like, well, what happens if I push that outside of the relationship

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and ended up kind of becoming a serial serial cheater?

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Very disconnected from that. Started living in a lie like, like, a life of complete lies.

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Truly a double life where as soon as I had some time for myself, I would start scheming, like, truly the behavior that you see on somebody with substance addiction. And since I've learned through my training and, you know, through coaching and,

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and and a lot of other tools, a lot of the the training that I have, that addiction is addiction is addiction.

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They express themselves differently. They have different consequences,

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but the addictive mentality

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will drive you to do those things that separate you from your real self, especially if you're already disconnected from it. And for me, it was that way in which it presented. And when I realized that I was losing control of how I wanted to act, I never thought of myself as a cheater. I never thought of myself as somebody who would lie, definitely not at those levels.

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And, again, that wake up moment of, like, I could see myself

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driving in autopilot

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just going through the motions. And there was a part of me that was trying to pump the brakes. Like, don't do this. This is not something that you wanna engage. And this is just don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. And being completely unable to control myself.

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And so that was that was the moment that's like, this is

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is is hurting me. It's hurting my partner.

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It's

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unrecognizable

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as as a I I don't know who I am anymore. Like, I truly don't know who I am now. And that was the moment that for me, I was like, I need to start therapy immediately. And so

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I started,

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working with somebody who, was a sex therapist

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and could help me kinda manage and understand truly

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what was happening for me. Like, what addiction was? Why why I was experiencing,

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what I was experiencing? And

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even though I carried an enormous amount of shame because of my behavior,

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she started

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helping me understand

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that

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that was,

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I'll I'll say,

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natural

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as in when you're so disconnected and such in in such pain,

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your body will automatically

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try to look for something that helps you feel better even if it's a completely negative behavior in the long term. And so kind of removing a little bit the shame around

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having acted, you know, so horribly for such a long time,

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and that's kinda where the the journey really started.

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I would say the return to recovery.

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You know, that that's a really good point too is pornography can be an addiction too. A lot of people don't consider things like that

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an addiction because it's

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like, well, I'm not doing anything that's hurting my body or what, you know, I'm not doing drugs. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not doing drugs and I'm not

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stealing from my family to do drugs or

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but it's still an addiction because you're still

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using that as a vice.

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Absolutely. Yeah. Addictions, you know, an addiction is,

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it's a it's a short term behavior

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that

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feels positive and that on the long term, when left unchecked,

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will have negative consequences. But it starts out as

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sometimes a lifeline. Like, this thing that's like, I need this

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to breathe. I need this to make my life a little bit better because I'm suffering. So you try masking that suffering, but, eventually, if you don't get it under control,

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then, yeah, it becomes what it becomes. It can be substances. It can be sugar. It can be, you know, phones, like screens. Like, we can get lost in anything, other people, anything.

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Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, that that reminds me a lot of

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the OCD.

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Don't seek reassurance

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because it's a

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it's an immediate feel. Dopamine hit? Yeah. It's immediate an immediate feel of relief. And then

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all it's doing is damaging you.

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Yep. It's so it's crazy.

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It's what you feel you need, but it's only

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like hurting more. Right. Right. It's not doing anything but causing harm.

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Yeah. Yeah. And I imagine that you've experienced a lot of that rest where, like, you wanted to like, is is this search for what's the thing that's gonna make make it feel a little bit more tolerable. Right? Oh, yeah. And

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and asking lens,

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hey. I'm not that kind of person. Right? And she would at first she would say, no, of course not.

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But once I started going to therapy and the OCD therapist was like, hey, you don't do that because that's bad. Reassurance

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is not what you need. Yeah. Reassurance is gas on the fire. It's,

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it's not gonna make OCD any better. It's actually going to make it worse because you're just

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confirming to your brain that

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your fear is valid.

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Creating those neuron pathways that say, yes, be afraid of this. Mhmm. Exactly. Exactly.

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Mhmm. It's

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crazy.

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Well, when in your experience

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did you start to

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well, when did you discover and or start to utilize, psychedelics or your mental health journey?

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I was very lucky that as I was starting therapy,

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I had my so that I had my first psychedelic experience after I had started therapy,

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because

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what we're hearing about psychedelics

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so much right now, you know, there's a whole renaissance as it's called, like, truly this new wave of using them for mental health. And I think that it can be very easy to lose track of the fact that what's making them very useful for mental health is not just the psychedelic. It's the way in which they're used. It's the method, and it's the fact that

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there is integration or processing after a journey that is done with a professional. Like, there is there,

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it it's a tool, and you can use a hammer to build something beautiful or to, you know, destroy a wall. And in the same way that, you know, that's that's what tools are. So

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when I discovered psychedelics, I did it because I was listening to a podcast,

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where they had a a mycologist. He's called Paul Stamets.

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And I've since heard of a few people who listened to that particular episode, and he was talking about psilocybin,

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which is the ingredient in magic mushrooms.

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And he is such a

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salesman in a way. Like, he truly

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when he's captivating when he speaks.

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He's also in the documentary Fantastic Fungi. If you guys haven't watched it, I highly recommend it to anybody listening.

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And I just the as soon as our podcast ended, I was like, I need to figure this out. Like, how can I get my hands on some of this? And I didn't really have any contacts or I didn't know I it was not my world at all. And I actually, I was so scared to try to find somebody who would sell them to me or anything like that that I the easiest way for me to do it was like,

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I'll just find the spores, and I'll grow them. I'll grow my own mushrooms first. And that seemed easier than finding somebody on the street who could, like, help me out.

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And I did legal, maybe.

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More legal. Yeah. Technically. Because I'm not buying it from anyone. The spores are actually legal in most states, and so

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that that that because the spores don't contain psilocybin. So you can actually buy the spores. And if you go through trouble of learning how to do it, then you can grow them.

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Technically, don't consume them. It's just for science.

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It's just for my biology.

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And so, yeah, it was great because as I started consuming them and having this really strong experiences,

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like, on I was trying to kind of model my experiences after what I understood was being done,

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at the universities, right, with all this research that research that was coming out.

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But the truth is that I wasn't exactly sure of what I was doing at the very beginning.

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But then I would have these big experiences,

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incredibly powerful,

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very confusing, and then I would go back to my therapist and be like, this is what happened. And she would be able to do integration for me and kinda help me piece or

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yeah. Help me do integration,

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you know, doing it for me and and help me piece together

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kind of all of these pieces of material

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that were coming up during my experiences.

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So that was about

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that was probably about 5 years ago that I that I started,

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experimenting with psychedelics for my mental health.

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Wow.

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So how was your your first experience?

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Like, what

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I don't I don't want people to think, like,

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you're just doing it to trip balls, you know,

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you're doing it because of the way it, from what I've heard, I've never done it, but

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it opened yeah. I have. Especially when I was down the really bad path of OCD, but it opens your mind up. Can you kind of explain how that works

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and what you feel like when you're in,

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you know,

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I don't wanna say a trip because that makes it sound terrible. But when you're on a journey Yeah.

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Yeah. Yeah. On a journey. And I appreciate kind of the carefulness around the vocabulary.

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And I'll also say that

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at this point in my life today, I enjoy psychedelics

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recreationally,

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you know, quote, unquote, as much as I get benefit from them therapeutically.

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And I think that with a responsible attitude, with the right mindset, with knowledge, like knowing what you're doing, knowing your substance, testing it, knowing about dose, about set and setting. A recreational experience, like, just having a really good day on a recreational experience can be, you know,

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almost as therapeutic in certain cases, truly,

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as having a controlled journey.

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But I I wouldn't necessarily recommend for somebody who doesn't know what they're doing yet to jump into that.

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What makes

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those experiences different, as I mentioned, was,

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the methods, the set, the setting, meaning

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how you're prepared

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to, come into this experience, the tools that you have,

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you know, for somebody who doesn't know anything about mental health and they're kinda just starting their journey and understanding themselves, it's gonna be a much different experience than somebody who has been, say, going to therapy or who has a really,

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dedicated practice of self understanding and know you know, self knowledge who, you know, journals a lot or,

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those kinds of things.

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What that feels like, a therapy a therapeutic experience or a trip is,

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by definition,

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the psychedelic experience is ineffable.

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It's it's one of the characteristics of the of the psychedelic experience. It's

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very difficult to put it into words. And so, what what I can speak to maybe is some of the most common effects when you're in the journey, like, what that might feel like. But to speak of visuals, to speak of,

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you know, what is it that people see and and how they feel inside after having that,

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can be very tricky. And it is also different for every single person.

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What psychedelics

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do if I had to,

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you know,

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to summarize it, to to say it briefly, is that they

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help

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blur the line between the conscious and the unconscious mind. The world the word psychedelic,

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means

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mind manifesting.

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So it's really allowing for those parts of your mind that usually are kind of behind

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the shadows that are

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kept in check by your defense mechanisms

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because they're too difficult to deal with or they're a little scary or too scary,

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to come up during regular, you know, consciousness because during on my day to day, well, I have to make dinner and I have to work and I have to tend to, you know, my plants and feed my cat. I can't be thinking about all of these traumatic experiences and just kinda having the present with me. There's mechanisms that we have that keep them in check. So during this psychedelic experience,

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that line is blurred. It's like the the the guards

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fell asleep,

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and that starts seeping into depending on the dose just kind of being pushed into your conscious awareness.

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People have the experience of kind of receiving

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insight or they they can call it downloads as if all of a sudden

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something made sense that you had never seen it before. I I know another practitioner who call it, like, the 3rd leave. Like, sometimes you're looking at a

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at

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a situation in your life, and you think that you only have 2 choices

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and, they're black or white, and psychedelics just kinda have, like, as if this was a plant. Like, you know, branching out. And all of a sudden, there's, like, a new leaf that comes out through the middle, and it's this

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option that is not here, not there,

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that is more integrated

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with the reality of the the of what you have in terms of choices. It doesn't have to be as black and white.

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People get visuals. Close side visuals are very can be very intense. They are almost dreamlike.

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Some of them can be incredibly beautiful. And I've had clients who

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literally

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cry because what they're experiencing is so beautiful.

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Just the the images that they're seeing just move them to tears.

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Psychological experiences can be incredibly

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positive

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as in this is the most joy that I've experienced in my life. All of a sudden, I can laugh like I like I did when I was 5 years old, and I haven't experienced this since I was a kid, and they can be very harrowing as well. They can be,

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it's, you know, it's heaven and hell. Your demons might come up, and then that's what we call a challenging experience, which outside of this context can be known as a bad trip.

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I would make the difference that when you're in a bad trip,

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usually the set and the setting are not enough to contain that experience. And so it can really spiral into, you know, something that becomes out of control,

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which is why people, you know, end up end up in the hospital. Usually, they're safe physically,

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but they are having such a struggle mentally that,

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that they, you know, that they need that outside help. But within the context of a therapeutic setting, you have a control set setting somebody who's supportive.

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You know exactly what you took and the dose that you took, and all of that helps contain those experiences. So then instead of a a bad trip, you can have a challenging experience,

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but that just means that you're looking at everything that exists within you

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in a space that is allowed specifically for that, and you have somebody who can help you do so lovingly and openly

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and to hold it all, to process it all in that moment, and hopefully,

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in sessions that come after which become the integration.

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Interesting.

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That's that's a lot. Hold on.

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So you've mentioned a couple of things. Right? You said, your method, your set in your setting.

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Can you dive in a little deeper as to

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what that looks like if you're,

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someone who's interested in this experience? Like, how how do you manufacture all of that?

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Yeah. So that is, I think, what's important about working with, you know, a facilitator or a guide.

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There's

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maybe different

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levels of kind of professionals

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that you can work with.

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The,

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I I would say, at kind of at the lowest of the levels, if it's a sitter. That's somebody who's not really a professional,

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guide or or who you know, may they might have some experiences, basically, say, telling somebody, hey. Can you just kinda be present while I'm doing this thing? And they, you know, make sure that they're they're,

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around and can help you with whatever you might need. And then there's, you know,

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a professional therapist who has a certification to work on these things, which right now there's not many in the United States or in the world, really. They're just kinda working with,

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with universities trying to to to understand all of this because it's still very misunderstood.

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At the level that I work, I consider myself a facilitator, like a guide. I have training in coaching that's specific to the psychedelic experience for psychedelic integration for preparation.

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So what that looks like is,

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the methods that I use

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encourage an inwards facing experience,

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meaning that different from, like, just kinda tripping, taking some mushrooms, and going into the woods or hanging out watching TV,

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right, which is what a lot of people are used to. Like, this is actually a eyes closed

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experience. You're wearing a sleep mask, and you're wearing headphones that are playing a very specific playlist that was designed for this experience. It's very evocative. It It moves you emotionally, and it also has some spaces where it leaves you,

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you know, with some breaks in the music or, like, very just just kinda calm music for you to be able to to have a minute to or a couple minutes to take a breather and to process what just happened.

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Experiences usually last between

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5 to 6 hours,

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where people are in the

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psychedelic experience for usually about 4 and a half to 5 hours. There's also

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some time to gear up to go into the experience on the day of and some time to land.

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So the person will be with me, you know, for basically an entire day,

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when they're doing their their experience.

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I provide what I call nondirective

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support. So it's not like you're taking the,

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and I'm, just kind of asking you questions or telling you how about we think about this or move you in this direction. It's actually I'm not trying to influence your experience.

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I trust that you know yourself more than I know you, who, you know, know even if you've been working with me for a really long time, you know yourself better than I know you, and I trust that

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the experience is gonna bring up the things that need to be brought up. So what I'm doing there is

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when something comes up that feels like it needs to be discussed, that feels like it needs to be unpacked, then I come in as a coach, and I help nudge or kind of open up the path for the client to just continue their own experience.

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In terms of the setting, you know, it has to be very welcoming. It has to be very

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safe.

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It has to be private. You know, there must

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be other people around other than the client and the facilitator or facilitators.

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It's fairly neutral

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because

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psychedelics can be very

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what's the word I'm looking for here?

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When you're on a psychotech experience, you're very influenceable.

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And so, you know, imagery

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of things that you

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have any kind of opinion on will become enhanced. Like, the volume for everything has just,

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been raised.

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So a space that's neutral, that is safe. Safety is key. Having a good relationship with your guide and,

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yeah, just

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really

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making the person feel

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that everything that comes up during that day is welcome, and it's okay.

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Wow.

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That's a lot. It

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I mean, the whole idea of this controlled experience, I mean, that

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I I

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didn't realize, I guess, that that is something that

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I mean, it seems obvious when you talk about it. Right? Like, you want the idea of the sitter. Right? That makes total sense. Yeah. But to exponential

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to, you know, expend on that,

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to have it even bigger than that is to have someone actually help you through it. And I think you've said it a few times. Right?

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The idea of integration.

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I mean, is that,

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post or during or both? Or

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how does integration work? Yeah.

357
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Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. So I think of integration as kind of taking everything, all the threads that you kind of got to pull during that experience and weaving them into

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something new, something that's gonna affect your life. So it can be new behaviors. It can be new perspectives.

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Because

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once another of the characteristics, I said the the

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the experience is ineffable.

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It's also

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very

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easy to forget,

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which is surprising, I think, to some people because it's such an intense experience. And when you come out of it, you're like, oh my god. This is you know, it's changed my life.

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And then a week later,

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you're gonna remember some of the details, but the felt experience, you know, that true, like, oh god. This was so intense that I wanna make these changes.

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That will fade away.

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That's why, you know, it's important to recognize that this is still work. It's a tool, but the tool is gonna give you the pieces.

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You have to put that puzzle together and make sure that if a piece is just kinda falling off at some point because, you know, a couple of weeks have passed or you went back to a certain pattern of behavior that it's not serving you, like, that's gonna push out

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the work that you did. So it's

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it's realizing

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through the experience

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that you have all of these choices, that you can make all of this turn all of these new behaviors into something

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concrete for yourself and beneficial for yourself by doing that work. And so integration

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usually comes after,

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and that can be,

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it's usually for me in the form of,

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calls with my

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clients, the week of the experience, you know, within

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2 or 3 days. And then,

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depending on, you know, how much integration they they are doing with me and how much we feel that it's that it's necessary,

383
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every week after that is or,

384
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you know, the the the timing can change.

385
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There can be some integration that happens on the day of,

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but, normally, integration takes a little bit of time. It's it really is just processing. And for big, big experiences, it will take some time to process.

387
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You know,

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of all the stuff that you're saying, I really like that you are not

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coloring any of it. You're saying you could have a harrowing experience, but

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but

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it's always a tool

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that we use to break down that harrowing experience and we learn from it.

393
00:32:05.445 --> 00:32:07.785
You're not like trying to sell it as

394
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this thing's gonna fix you. The cure. Yeah. It's gonna it's gonna fix you a 100%, you know, or or it's the easy button for mental health

395
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issues.

396
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It's still work.

397
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But

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I,

399
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I like what you're doing and what you're saying, because I feel as if you're

400
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legitimatizing

401
00:32:28.490 --> 00:32:28.990
psychedelics.

402
00:32:30.010 --> 00:32:34.135
Most people right now are looking at psychedelics as something that hippies do.

403
00:32:35.015 --> 00:32:41.435
You know, they they get high off of them and they trip, you know, but that's not that's not the case anymore. There's nothing wrong with hippies.

404
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:47.440
No. No. I'm just saying it's just I know. It's, it's

405
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I like it because

406
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anything that can help people with mental illness

407
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should be

408
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seriously considered. A 100%. Because there's such little

409
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advancement in mental health

410
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that

411
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anything,

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especially something like this, that can open your mind up and almost make you

413
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why am I depressed? Let me look at the you know, let me open my mind up and kind of

414
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really dig into myself.

415
00:33:15.769 --> 00:33:22.669
Well, when you think back on your mental health journey, and we've talked about it a 1000000 times, and I'm, I'm gonna bring you in on this here a little bit.

416
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During your mental health journey, we changed medicine. How many times? I know. And the,

417
00:33:28.955 --> 00:33:33.260
what do we wanna call it? The withdrawal, the fallback, the the uptake, the

418
00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:41.040
titration, whatever the verbiage you wanna use in order to get to a good point on the new medicine always took a while. So it was

419
00:33:41.455 --> 00:33:42.275
a painful

420
00:33:42.655 --> 00:33:44.275
experience for a little while.

421
00:33:44.575 --> 00:33:47.635
So the idea of, you know, sec psychedelics

422
00:33:48.095 --> 00:33:49.795
being hurrying, I mean, it's

423
00:33:51.020 --> 00:33:53.840
yeah. Everything is when you come to mental health, like,

424
00:33:54.140 --> 00:33:56.800
so I don't see this as any

425
00:33:57.395 --> 00:34:00.375
bad points right now. It's like it it is it is

426
00:34:00.675 --> 00:34:06.930
part of a mental health journey if you want it to be. Well, I could see someone being a little resistant to wanting to go through a,

427
00:34:08.290 --> 00:34:11.990
you know, a harrowing experience and being fearful of it. But

428
00:34:12.770 --> 00:34:17.795
I I mean, you would get that on medicine too. Yeah. Agreed. But I feel like Mhmm.

429
00:34:18.895 --> 00:34:22.194
This is just another option. For sure. We need to legitimize

430
00:34:22.655 --> 00:34:23.714
things like this

431
00:34:24.260 --> 00:34:25.080
instead of

432
00:34:25.860 --> 00:34:28.200
big pharma pushing this stuff away

433
00:34:28.660 --> 00:34:30.600
because they want to sell more Zoloft.

434
00:34:32.795 --> 00:34:34.655
Right. They don't don't get me started.

435
00:34:38.954 --> 00:34:43.940
Yeah. I mean, there's there's so much truth in in in what you said. I mean, I've,

436
00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:48.420
have people I I have never had to go through the pharmaceutical

437
00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:50.315
route to kind of manage,

438
00:34:51.575 --> 00:34:53.595
mental health symptoms, but I have

439
00:34:53.895 --> 00:34:54.395
multiple

440
00:34:54.695 --> 00:35:05.640
loved people very close to me who have and who have gotten stuck in that cycle where, you know, now the pill is a forever thing for them. Or or if it's not, it has been

441
00:35:06.555 --> 00:35:07.055
incredibly

442
00:35:07.355 --> 00:35:12.175
difficult journey to leave it aside. So talk about you know, we have this fear of psychedelics

443
00:35:12.475 --> 00:35:15.529
because for 40, 50 years, we it was,

444
00:35:15.829 --> 00:35:17.130
you know, there was this propaganda

445
00:35:17.430 --> 00:35:23.769
that said that these are the worst things that are addictive, that incredibly hurt hurtful for you, and here we are being sold,

446
00:35:24.565 --> 00:35:27.145
you know, overprescribed with medications

447
00:35:27.525 --> 00:35:30.985
that truly you know, when you look at the history,

448
00:35:31.525 --> 00:35:35.010
I understand that there was some hope in the antidepressants,

449
00:35:35.870 --> 00:35:36.770
but the way that

450
00:35:37.070 --> 00:35:38.050
they're used today,

451
00:35:38.590 --> 00:35:47.015
we've we've really just kinda falling out of, out of line with it. So this is another option, and I'm glad that as I'm speaking, it feels like there's,

452
00:35:48.359 --> 00:35:55.180
there's an effort to legitimize it because I that that's exactly what it is. And I agree with you that for a lot of people,

453
00:35:55.865 --> 00:36:02.045
I think there there's different camps. Right now, psychedelics are just very sexy, so there's a lot of people just kinda trying to push them,

454
00:36:03.225 --> 00:36:04.605
without speaking of

455
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:09.380
the harrowing experiences, without speaking of the set and the setting because,

456
00:36:10.240 --> 00:36:11.940
you know, it's just easy to sell

457
00:36:12.555 --> 00:36:13.775
products to misinformed

458
00:36:14.075 --> 00:36:14.575
people,

459
00:36:15.435 --> 00:36:20.920
especially when there's such a wave. When people are hearing about this as a magic cure, they wanna try it. And so

460
00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:24.859
there has to be an effort for the people who believe in it to,

461
00:36:26.359 --> 00:36:29.339
legitimize it, but also in the in the most responsible way.

462
00:36:29.640 --> 00:36:30.140
And

463
00:36:31.495 --> 00:36:34.395
something just have perspective because you mentioned that,

464
00:36:35.255 --> 00:36:37.970
people what you know, when they they think of psychedelics, hippie

465
00:36:38.590 --> 00:36:39.650
culture. And and that's true. And I think what's something that's really interesting about about them,

466
00:36:40.109 --> 00:36:40.609
which

467
00:36:47.175 --> 00:36:51.115
I've come to understand the more that I move in the circles, is

468
00:36:51.575 --> 00:36:52.955
that psychedelics were,

469
00:36:53.895 --> 00:36:54.795
in the underground

470
00:36:55.255 --> 00:36:55.755
because

471
00:36:56.119 --> 00:36:59.900
legislation had pushed them there. We knew back in the seventies,

472
00:37:00.839 --> 00:37:08.275
sixties, even in the fifties, that these were incredible tools for mental health. There was research in the fifties sixties with LSD,

473
00:37:08.655 --> 00:37:09.475
for alcoholism,

474
00:37:09.935 --> 00:37:11.955
for, you know, all kinds of mental health,

475
00:37:12.570 --> 00:37:14.510
conditions. And so at some point,

476
00:37:15.370 --> 00:37:19.950
there was an explosion. It was really more because of political reasons. They were pushed into the underground.

477
00:37:20.325 --> 00:37:23.305
And there, they were mixing along with all of the pseudoscience

478
00:37:24.005 --> 00:37:27.065
that exists in the, you know, in underground movements.

479
00:37:27.420 --> 00:37:33.119
And so we associate it with the people who believe in all kinds of things that have absolutely no,

480
00:37:33.660 --> 00:37:34.720
scientific backing.

481
00:37:35.475 --> 00:37:39.175
And so now they're kind of being pulled out of the underground

482
00:37:39.555 --> 00:37:44.270
and into scientific the scientific realm as well. And we're also seeing

483
00:37:44.730 --> 00:37:53.095
as that is kind of coming up, a lot of the other beliefs that were around psychedelics kind of being heightened, you know, kind of being being almost,

484
00:37:54.035 --> 00:37:58.135
brought into the light because of that. So it's it's been an interesting experience.

485
00:37:59.100 --> 00:38:03.280
I definitely came to psychedelics through a more scientific background. You know, I I,

486
00:38:04.380 --> 00:38:05.840
was very, materialistic,

487
00:38:06.220 --> 00:38:12.055
not as in I like in material stuff, but, like, I don't believe in anything that I can't touch type thing. Right.

488
00:38:13.075 --> 00:38:13.475
And,

489
00:38:13.955 --> 00:38:20.410
I've certainly kind of hung out and and learned from people that I would have never thought I I was gonna be sitting around the same table

490
00:38:21.510 --> 00:38:27.765
with. For sure. For sure. And, you know, one of the things is I don't think big pharma can sell

491
00:38:28.385 --> 00:38:31.205
something that comes from something that grows in the ground.

492
00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:36.859
You know, they can't make BUCO profits off of it. So they

493
00:38:38.359 --> 00:38:47.065
you can't tell me that the politicians aren't in that pocket or they're not in the politician's pocket and and squashing things like that even though it's a game changer.

494
00:38:48.245 --> 00:38:48.745
Mhmm.

495
00:38:49.125 --> 00:38:49.625
Absolutely.

496
00:38:50.839 --> 00:38:51.339
Scary.

497
00:38:53.319 --> 00:39:03.275
Before we go down the rabbit holes of conspiracy theories and understanding how the government could be impacting big pharma, and we all know it's true. But moving on,

498
00:39:04.375 --> 00:39:08.040
I mean, how would you say that you feel that psychedelics have

499
00:39:18.505 --> 00:39:20.444
it's it's day and night.

500
00:39:22.505 --> 00:39:25.280
I won't say that my first psychedelic experience did it,

501
00:39:26.240 --> 00:39:30.500
but over the course of, you know, the first 6 months that I was doing

502
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:39.585
my sessions and, you know, as I started doing them, I learned how to do them better, and I was going to therapy. And then I would do, you know, these other sessions. I think they

503
00:39:39.965 --> 00:39:40.465
accelerated

504
00:39:40.765 --> 00:39:42.145
my therapeutic process,

505
00:39:42.500 --> 00:39:46.040
you know, incredibly. The progress that I saw within the 1st year,

506
00:39:47.140 --> 00:39:47.720
it was

507
00:39:48.100 --> 00:39:48.600
amazing.

508
00:39:50.915 --> 00:39:51.415
If

509
00:39:52.835 --> 00:39:53.815
I had to

510
00:39:55.235 --> 00:39:57.655
if I had to pick one thing maybe is

511
00:39:58.809 --> 00:39:59.309
reconnection

512
00:39:59.609 --> 00:40:05.069
to self. You know, when I spoke of kinda growing up and being in my head and being feeling disconnected

513
00:40:05.450 --> 00:40:08.030
from who I was and making decisions from

514
00:40:08.555 --> 00:40:10.815
space that I didn't even know who was making them,

515
00:40:11.275 --> 00:40:15.695
that started shifting. It's like all of a sudden I could see and feel

516
00:40:16.030 --> 00:40:18.290
who I was and started kind

517
00:40:18.829 --> 00:40:20.609
of creating that connection

518
00:40:21.230 --> 00:40:22.530
to the self.

519
00:40:23.390 --> 00:40:25.775
I I believe in this, and there's

520
00:40:27.035 --> 00:40:33.190
therapeutic theories, you know, some things like internal family systems and and and others that speak of the self.

521
00:40:33.990 --> 00:40:35.849
And the self is like this

522
00:40:36.790 --> 00:40:37.290
indestructible

523
00:40:37.750 --> 00:40:40.250
diamond. Like, when you come into the world

524
00:40:40.585 --> 00:40:44.684
and you see a kid, like, they're a 100% themselves. They are pure

525
00:40:46.825 --> 00:40:54.340
as pure as they can be, they are not bound by any kind of education or indoctrination or shame. You know? They're just themselves.

526
00:40:54.800 --> 00:40:57.485
And as we grow up, there's, like, these layers

527
00:40:57.945 --> 00:40:58.445
of

528
00:40:58.745 --> 00:41:05.930
different things that get in the way that start bearing that diamond. Right? So as I said, education, trauma is one of them,

529
00:41:06.329 --> 00:41:06.829
indoctrination,

530
00:41:07.210 --> 00:41:09.630
conditioning, like, all of these different things

531
00:41:09.930 --> 00:41:20.855
where we learn that we shouldn't be acting this particular way and that we should, like, that we should shy away, that we should make a decision because the other person expects us to versus because we want to.

532
00:41:21.315 --> 00:41:24.340
All of those things start kind of burying that self.

533
00:41:24.740 --> 00:41:38.745
And what I found that psychedelics did for me is that they started creating a channel, like, just kinda digging a a a tunnel where all of a sudden that diamond could start shining back again. I call it at some point, like, I I said, I found my aliasness.

534
00:41:39.500 --> 00:41:43.760
Like, the what makes me me. And not only did I find it, like, I feel it

535
00:41:44.140 --> 00:41:49.359
radiating out of me. And from there, when I feel like that and you can get to this place,

536
00:41:49.805 --> 00:41:56.420
you know, in other ways. You don't need psychedelics for that. But for me, that's why it did it. It certainly can be like an accelerated path

537
00:41:58.500 --> 00:41:59.720
because they have this,

538
00:42:00.660 --> 00:42:01.160
biochemical

539
00:42:02.660 --> 00:42:11.655
action mechanism. So they're truly just kind of shifting the way in which your brain works at least for for enough time that then you can hang on to that and grab momentum.

540
00:42:12.230 --> 00:42:15.370
And so when you're feeling yourself at a 100%,

541
00:42:15.750 --> 00:42:17.050
then you make better decisions.

542
00:42:17.510 --> 00:42:26.365
Then you can say, you know what? This relationship that's not serving me, I'm gonna move away from it. You know what? These behaviors that keep me stuck in a cycle,

543
00:42:26.665 --> 00:42:27.805
I don't want them anymore.

544
00:42:28.350 --> 00:42:34.930
And this you know, you you can truly be more connected. There's less space between I feel and then I act.

545
00:42:39.945 --> 00:42:41.165
Where where are you?

546
00:42:46.829 --> 00:42:48.910
It it interestingly enough, I,

547
00:42:49.310 --> 00:42:58.505
moved to Washington DC just a couple of, weeks ago. I just got here, and the reason part of the reason, at least, it's because DC is a decriminalized

548
00:42:58.805 --> 00:42:59.945
state after they,

549
00:43:00.805 --> 00:43:01.305
passed,

550
00:43:01.890 --> 00:43:02.950
initiative 81,

551
00:43:04.210 --> 00:43:05.270
psychedelics have

552
00:43:05.650 --> 00:43:08.345
go have they've gone to the lowest level of

553
00:43:08.984 --> 00:43:21.650
priority for law enforcement. So you still cannot sell them. You still cannot purchase them in stores and things like that. But it's basically been said, like, we're not gonna waste our time trying to, you know, criminalize and act on,

554
00:43:23.045 --> 00:43:24.985
you know, on substances that are

555
00:43:26.405 --> 00:43:29.785
not as definitely not as bad as we were made to believe

556
00:43:30.220 --> 00:43:32.880
and certainly starting to show a lot of potential

557
00:43:33.339 --> 00:43:43.105
to help people. So it's it's an interesting city, and there's only a couple of places in the country where that's the case. Colorado being one of them, Oregon being one of them, but DC is, is another one.

558
00:43:43.645 --> 00:43:47.835
That's awesome. We were we're from Northern Virginia. So but

559
00:43:48.740 --> 00:43:49.320
we were

560
00:43:49.700 --> 00:43:51.560
around the corner.

561
00:43:52.580 --> 00:43:53.400
That is.

562
00:43:54.660 --> 00:43:55.955
For real. Yep.

563
00:43:57.635 --> 00:44:01.335
Well, I think, from everything that we've heard from you, I mean,

564
00:44:02.035 --> 00:44:08.100
I I think it's a benefit to anyone with, mental health struggles that they're going through to

565
00:44:08.560 --> 00:44:12.900
explore the idea of psychedelic coaching. But I mean, who do you think is the

566
00:44:13.555 --> 00:44:16.435
target, if you will? Who's someone that would be,

567
00:44:16.915 --> 00:44:19.095
most benefiting from this experience?

568
00:44:20.549 --> 00:44:22.010
Yeah. What a great question.

569
00:44:22.390 --> 00:44:26.170
I think there's a lot of curiosity, so a lot of people, you know, want to try it out.

570
00:44:28.155 --> 00:44:30.655
I would say there's not one thing

571
00:44:31.035 --> 00:44:31.535
that

572
00:44:32.155 --> 00:44:36.335
that this experience can gift you. It can be used for dealing with

573
00:44:37.300 --> 00:44:45.880
difficult mental health conditions. It can also be used for just self development for somebody who's looking for self actualization. Even if they right now, they're not,

574
00:44:46.415 --> 00:44:49.235
if they're not dealing with a mental health condition,

575
00:44:51.295 --> 00:44:52.995
you can just use it to self actualize.

576
00:44:53.420 --> 00:44:56.320
Sometimes you just wanna use it for a moment of recon reconnection.

577
00:44:57.260 --> 00:45:06.795
For some people, that never, never happens. Right? We live very busy lives. So to take an entire day, like, you know, 8, 9 hours for yourself

578
00:45:07.175 --> 00:45:14.359
to go to see somebody who's gonna hold space for you and prepare a beautiful ceremony because you deserve it, that's also a great,

579
00:45:14.819 --> 00:45:16.519
a great reason to do them.

580
00:45:16.980 --> 00:45:18.680
I think one of the most important

581
00:45:20.295 --> 00:45:20.795
criteria

582
00:45:21.575 --> 00:45:22.555
is openness.

583
00:45:22.935 --> 00:45:27.370
Right? You have to be open to new experiences and open to the fact that this is

584
00:45:27.930 --> 00:45:28.510
going to

585
00:45:29.290 --> 00:45:29.790
be

586
00:45:30.570 --> 00:45:32.190
work, some kind of work.

587
00:45:32.570 --> 00:45:34.350
It always it always is.

588
00:45:35.130 --> 00:45:37.515
But if you come in prepared for that,

589
00:45:38.135 --> 00:45:40.955
with an open heart and with an open mind,

590
00:45:41.575 --> 00:45:43.675
you're gonna get value out of this experience.

591
00:45:45.300 --> 00:45:45.800
Wow.

592
00:45:46.180 --> 00:45:47.640
So essentially everyone?

593
00:45:49.940 --> 00:45:55.345
I believe mostly everyone. Yeah. There I I and I will say because I think it's really important

594
00:45:55.725 --> 00:45:57.405
that there are sent

595
00:45:57.805 --> 00:46:00.305
certain mental health conditions that are,

596
00:46:03.460 --> 00:46:06.280
what's the word, is not not recommended.

597
00:46:06.740 --> 00:46:08.280
There's a better word for it,

598
00:46:08.660 --> 00:46:08.900
that it's

599
00:46:09.995 --> 00:46:13.055
that that I'm totally losing right now. But, yeah, there are certain

600
00:46:13.595 --> 00:46:15.375
mental health conditions like schizophrenia

601
00:46:15.835 --> 00:46:20.570
where they truly recommend to not engage with psychedelics because they can be very destabilizing.

602
00:46:21.510 --> 00:46:22.010
Bipolar

603
00:46:22.390 --> 00:46:25.770
disorder is kind of still in a

604
00:46:26.174 --> 00:46:34.500
gray area, but, you know, professionals right now, I normally don't work with it. Like, research is there's not that much research geared

605
00:46:35.060 --> 00:46:35.560
towards,

606
00:46:37.460 --> 00:46:37.960
bipolar.

607
00:46:38.500 --> 00:46:39.160
And so

608
00:46:39.860 --> 00:46:44.440
I would say it's mostly for everyone, but it's important that you consider your own

609
00:46:44.935 --> 00:46:52.635
situation before jumping into something like that. And a good guide is gonna ask questions around that. So, you know, for anybody who's engaging with somebody who

610
00:46:53.260 --> 00:47:09.905
wants to offer those services, it's really important that they kind of understand what makes a good facilitator. And there's a lot of really good articles that you can find online that will help you define kind of if the person that you're working with feels legit, what it should feel like, and, you know, what questions to ask.

611
00:47:11.100 --> 00:47:22.075
As I'm saying that, I'm thinking that I probably should have something like that in my, a little, FAQ on my on my website that helps people as well kind of even if they're not working with me to direct them to someone. Because

612
00:47:22.615 --> 00:47:24.875
it it's probably for

613
00:47:26.135 --> 00:47:28.315
many people, it is one of the most important

614
00:47:28.630 --> 00:47:32.330
experiences or most significant experiences that they have in their life,

615
00:47:33.030 --> 00:47:35.290
and it's also one of the most vulnerable

616
00:47:35.910 --> 00:47:37.405
spaces that you can be in.

617
00:47:38.125 --> 00:47:40.465
It's a very vulnerable experience

618
00:47:40.845 --> 00:47:41.345
by

619
00:47:41.645 --> 00:47:48.860
nature. So you want to have somebody, if you're doing it with somebody, that knows how to hold that space and that you can truly, truly trust.

620
00:47:49.960 --> 00:47:50.460
Right.

621
00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:52.940
See, it's

622
00:47:54.265 --> 00:47:55.005
I see

623
00:47:55.625 --> 00:47:58.845
very small amounts of negatives, if any,

624
00:47:59.305 --> 00:48:04.829
in trying it. There's definitely a lot less side effects from what it sounds like then Zoloft.

625
00:48:06.970 --> 00:48:08.829
I mean, let's be clear. That's what you're taking.

626
00:48:09.130 --> 00:48:13.135
We keep saying Zoloft. We're not picking on it. It's what he's taking.

627
00:48:13.675 --> 00:48:14.735
That's that's right.

628
00:48:15.835 --> 00:48:22.069
Yeah. I understand. What do you want to do? What do you think about flipping gears onto the fun question? Let's do it.

629
00:48:23.410 --> 00:48:24.309
If you won

630
00:48:24.849 --> 00:48:25.910
$10,000,000 tonight,

631
00:48:26.450 --> 00:48:28.710
what would be the first thing you do tomorrow?

632
00:48:31.215 --> 00:48:31.875
That's a

633
00:48:32.655 --> 00:48:41.840
yeah. I I think that's an easy one. I'm I'm I'm trying to think to see if, like, is there anything else? But the truth is, you know, you said in my introduction, I dedicate my life to this today.

634
00:48:42.700 --> 00:48:44.560
And the truth is that currently,

635
00:48:45.340 --> 00:48:45.580
I

636
00:48:46.345 --> 00:48:50.365
there is an attachment that I have to a 9 to 5 job

637
00:48:50.745 --> 00:48:58.510
because, you know, paying bills is important. And if there's one thing that I do not want is for this to just become a financial,

638
00:49:00.010 --> 00:49:04.270
you know, that that all my money is coming from my facilitation and coaching practice

639
00:49:04.934 --> 00:49:13.150
because that, in a way, just kind of puts pressure on it. And it's a pressure that it's not welcome. It's a pressure that affects how you work on it. So if I had $10,000,000,

640
00:49:13.610 --> 00:49:17.070
I didn't have to think about things. I would just open up a practice,

641
00:49:17.370 --> 00:49:20.675
buy a piece of land that would, you know, would become a retreat,

642
00:49:21.375 --> 00:49:22.975
where you would have not just,

643
00:49:23.695 --> 00:49:28.195
important pieces for this work. It's not just the psychedelics and the integration, but your community.

644
00:49:28.580 --> 00:49:31.080
So having a community where, like, wellness is,

645
00:49:31.620 --> 00:49:38.674
put a top priority and where people who need to heal can come, can feel safe, can stay.

646
00:49:39.055 --> 00:49:42.755
And when they have done the work that they need to do, then they can go.

647
00:49:44.894 --> 00:49:48.920
Oh, That sounds beautiful. Yeah. I'll go. That that's

648
00:49:49.300 --> 00:49:50.599
that's a good answer.

649
00:49:52.660 --> 00:49:54.200
I like it. Yeah. Absolutely.

650
00:49:56.345 --> 00:49:56.845
Yeah.

651
00:49:57.145 --> 00:50:08.410
Well, if we win the lottery and it's a substantial amount, we'll give you that 10,000,000. How about that? You can hold us to it. For sure. Then you guys get, like, lifetime passes for, like Yeah. All of the services.

652
00:50:10.070 --> 00:50:11.940
Here. Go ahead and subscriptions.

653
00:50:12.865 --> 00:50:14.725
Yeah. Alright. So

654
00:50:15.505 --> 00:50:17.525
we talked about your business before

655
00:50:17.825 --> 00:50:21.285
a little bit. Where can we find you online? Where can people

656
00:50:21.590 --> 00:50:22.890
sign up for an appointment,

657
00:50:23.350 --> 00:50:24.650
learn about your services,

658
00:50:25.030 --> 00:50:28.970
things of that nature? Where are you out there on the old inter inter webs?

659
00:50:30.025 --> 00:50:34.205
Yeah. So my website really would be, the best place. It's www.curasanajourneys.com.

660
00:50:38.610 --> 00:50:40.550
And Kurasana, as I mentioned, is

661
00:50:41.570 --> 00:50:42.070
cursornajourneys.com.

662
00:50:46.435 --> 00:51:03.060
The website is the best place because although I have tried doing a little bit of social media marketing, and it's just it almost goes up against the principles of the wellness that I'm trying to kinda build and to share. Like, I don't want to be promoting wellness on, you know, highly addictive websites

663
00:51:03.395 --> 00:51:11.175
that are as addicting to me as to the people that are using them. And so I've tried my hand on Instagram. You can still find my profile there at Kurasana Journeys,

664
00:51:11.690 --> 00:51:14.670
but don't expect it to be very up to date or very,

665
00:51:15.930 --> 00:51:16.670
you know

666
00:51:17.450 --> 00:51:20.349
yeah. I'm not I'm not gonna be promoting stuff there a lot.

667
00:51:21.204 --> 00:51:26.425
At least that's that's for now, I I wanna stay disconnected from that. So the website would be the best place.

668
00:51:27.525 --> 00:51:31.380
Awesome. And we've been to your website. It's very pretty. Yeah. You did a good job.

669
00:51:32.240 --> 00:51:36.260
Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. Took a lot of work and, yeah, just got a multiple

670
00:51:37.694 --> 00:51:41.555
tries, but, it's yeah. It's I I'm happy with where it's at.

671
00:51:42.335 --> 00:51:47.450
For sure. Well, we can't thank you enough for joining us, and this has been both educational

672
00:51:47.830 --> 00:51:49.290
Oh, yeah. And honestly

673
00:51:49.910 --> 00:51:53.930
fun. Yeah. Yeah. I liked it. Talking about something that, you know,

674
00:51:54.230 --> 00:52:04.735
you don't know wouldn't expect, I guess, to be in the realm of mental health, but we've been taught that psychedelics are the devil. Yeah. But hearing about it, I mean,

675
00:52:06.410 --> 00:52:12.190
I I I don't know. Maybe we talk about this. Like, we have family still in the DC area. Do you wanna go? I

676
00:52:12.570 --> 00:52:14.829
think we could. Go visit, and

677
00:52:15.155 --> 00:52:16.375
we'll go check out.

678
00:52:16.835 --> 00:52:21.734
Yeah. And then we'll have you at on as, like, a post a post, what, partum or whatever?

679
00:52:22.994 --> 00:52:24.375
Postpartum is babies.

680
00:52:26.660 --> 00:52:28.760
Well, if you give birth to yourself

681
00:52:29.220 --> 00:52:30.360
as some people do.

682
00:52:30.660 --> 00:52:34.085
See. See. See. He made he he fixed my issue

683
00:52:35.105 --> 00:52:39.365
already. There you go. We we need you here. We need you here.

684
00:52:40.145 --> 00:52:41.205
Thanks so much.

685
00:52:42.260 --> 00:52:49.320
Yeah. Well, thank you, guys. This has been a pleasure. It's been really fun, and, thank you for giving me the opportunity to share this with you and and your listeners.

686
00:52:52.755 --> 00:52:54.935
Thanks for listening to The Unfiltered

687
00:52:55.315 --> 00:52:55.815
Union.

688
00:52:56.435 --> 00:52:59.839
Did you like the episode? Support the show. Visit us on patreon@patreon.com/unfilteredunion.

689
00:53:03.180 --> 00:53:06.704
Or you can rock some merch. Check out our store at store dotunfilteredunion.com.

690
00:53:08.045 --> 00:53:11.345
For all other things unfiltered, check out our site at unfilteredunion.com.

691
00:53:13.805 --> 00:53:16.258
It's what you do. It things you love.

Psychedelic Journeys: A Path to Self-Discovery and Healing - Elias Moskona

Elias Moskona